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Changes at eBay involving problem auctions and violations of policies rile former community group

Disputes over reporting of counterfeit coin listings
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By , Coin World
Published : 07/02/14
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Former members of eBay’s Coin Community Watch Group and others are claiming eBay has dismantled its overall Trust and Safety program although company officials of the online auction company say the program has only been modified.

Those who claim eBay has eliminated all efforts to curtail listings of counterfeit coins and numismatic items or investigate claims of eBay policy violations say the actions have crippled customer confidence in buying and selling numismatic items on eBay.

An official at eBay says the Enhanced Member Reporting, or EMR initiatives, have not been scrapped, only streamlined.

Additionally, “eBay remains committed to providing a safe, secure online marketplace for the sale of coins and currency,” according to Gene Cook, eBay’s general manager of emerging verticals. “We also place the utmost value on the feedback of our community members. We’re currently moving toward a more formal process for reporting and removing any fraudulent behavior within the coin category.

“Having recently partnered with a lead expert in counterfeit coin recognition, who proactively monitors our marketplace for inauthentic listings, we’ve also broadened our internal team within this category in an effort to detect and investigate fraudulent activity in a more streamlined manner. 

“We are proud of the steps we have taken to combat the sale of counterfeit coins in recent years. Through continual investments in technology, human resources, key external relationships and infrastructure, eBay is committed to aggressively detecting and removing members who engage in any type of fraudulent behavior.

“We value the pivotal role our community members play in the detection of illegal and unwelcome counterfeit listings, and encourage them to continue bringing listings that are perceived to be fraudulent to our attention through the ‘Report Item’ link or form. Once submitted, a detailed review is initiated and vetted by our teams, and listings deemed fraudulent will be removed promptly.”

Cook added, “We still have EMR in place, but we have limited its usage to a small group of experts in order to provide more consistency when investigating listings that violate our policies. Those in the community who are no longer part of EMR can still report violations, and those reports will be investigated just as before. As mentioned, we’ve also created a more formalized structure between our experts and CS [customer services] agents. One of these experts is Steve Blum.”

Blum, a professional numismatist since 1972, says he has been a consultant for eBay for nearly three years. Blum says he polices auctions of U.S. and world coins, addressing improper listings that offer counterfeits and replicas in violation of eBay policy.

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86 comments
Cook has lied and I urge everyone to try reporting counterfeits and report back here and on Collectors Universe. Steve Blum is the only numismatic EMR and paid for it but his contributions have been rather less than those from the 6 or so others and the many reports froom ordinary members that used to be sent to EMR's until eBay killed that.
eBay is NOT committed to providing a safe, secure online marketplace for the sale of coins and currency. Items reported that are OBVIOUS counterfeits are NOT removed. If they were committed, they would not have disbanded the department that employed "coin & stamp policy experts". That department actually removed reported forgeries, alterations and other coin policy violations.
One question to ask Cook is given that “eBay remains committed to providing a safe, secure online marketplace for the sale of coins and currency” why is that all Third Party Reports of counterfeits are now consigned to the garbage bin instead of being sent to an EMR and why reports of counterfeits from the remaining EMR's are also now treated in this manner.

As already noted, Blum has done very little in his EMR role when compared to the 6 or more other EMR's.

There was no significant problem with consistency, as at least 99% of TPR's led to the recommendation of listing cancellation by the EMR's.

Since the decimation of Coin Community Watch, no accounts have been suspended, even those identified as Chinese crooks.

Finally, try reporting a counterfeit on a non-US site and you will discover that you will also be completely ignored there, even if you talk to a supervisor - I know, I've tried it.

Buying coins on eBay has never been more dangerous and frankly, I strongly counsel against it unless you have considerable expertise in some area of numismatics and are careful never to stray away from that area.
You are not removing fakes, by removing the e.m.r. program you have allowed sellers to sell fakes.
you also do not remove copies, which is under your ebay rules and you take no notice of reports which are
sent to you. And since you closed the e.m.r. program down, more and more forgeries fakes are being sold.
You also claim the e.m r. is still active, and that you have reduced it, wrong it is closed.
Reporting a coin policy violation using the "report item" link within the listing tells you a whole lot about eBay's dedication to providing a safe, secure online marketplace for the sale of coins and currency. There are only four items you can report.
1. You can report a certified coin that has not been certified by one of the authorized grading companies.
2. You can report an uncertified or raw coin that include a numeric grade, references to a grading company or price guide, an estimate of value, or a misleading or stock photo.
3. You can report currency or stamps doesn't follow eBay policy.
4. You can report replica coins that are not marked COPY.

First, replica coins aren't allowed at all, and haven't been for a year or more, yet their reporting mechanism hasn't been updated indicating that such replicas are allowed when they are not.
Where are specific choices for counterfeit coins, altered coins, plated bullion, etc.? Where is the choice for not having large, in-focus photos of both sides? More than 100 characters are needed to explain things.

I have reported in excess of 100 blatantly fake or altered coins over the last month and not a single one was removed, I used every option possible with no results. Fakes are being followed on CU with no success and this is a very bad thing especially for those who are new to coins or lack experience. The old system had it's flaws but this new system is useless. We in the coin community can hear the counterfeiters cheers loud and clear.
U.K. sellers are getting away with blatant violations in the bullion category, by allowing sellers to list plated counterfeit gold coins and bars with the description of .999 pure. The same is true for silver coins or bars. Although in the sellers descriptions, in most cases, indicates the item as plated but the item itself does not. All of this junk is produced in China and readily available at Aliexpress.com which is famous for it's counterfeit or replicated plated bullion and coins. eBay has done nothing to eliminate those auctions and reporting them is an effort in futility.
Ebay was once a vibrant and low cost venue for coin transactions. It has become an expensive wasteland with only preferred sellers doing any real volume. The thrill is gone.

Mark Glicker
I am sorry to say this might be the death of coin collecting and it will branch out.
From one of eBay's Power Sellers that sells only real collectables.
HEY EBAY what happened to this statement from you?http://pages.ebay.com/againstcounterfeits/


Home > eBay Against Counterfeits

eBay Against Counterfeits



Why do counterfeits hurt the community?
eBay is committed to preventing the sale of counterfeit products because:

It's illegal and harmful to the marketplace
Buying a counterfeit is a bad experience for you and the brands you trust
Counterfeits undermine buying trust
It's bad for honest sellers who deal in authentic merchandise

What are we doing to prevent counterfeit listings?

We're constantly working to make our site safer by:

Proactively removing suspicious items
Removing items reported as counterfeit by brand owners
Working closely with law enforcement to prosecute offenders
Enforcing selling limits on some items
Restricting seller activity in certain categories
Providing free tools for rights owners to efficiently identify and report items to us for immediate removal
Partnering with brand owners and industry initiatives to bring attention to and combat the issue worldwide
What can you do to help?
eBay users:

Don't buy or sell counterfeit goods
Learn about the law and our policies
Report suspicious goods by clicking on the "Report this Item" link at the bottom of the listing
Pay for your purchases using PayPal
Do you suspect that you bought a counterfeit?

Warn others by leaving honest feedback
If you paid with PayPal, file a claim for Buyer Protection
Rights owners:

Participate in the Verified Rights Owner Program
Create a Verified Rights Owner "About Me" page
eBay is only committed to lining its own coffers. It does not care about us, you know, its users who fund Donahoe's undeserved salary.

When it lost the Louis Vuitton case in France, the fine was no more than derisory and it realised that it would make a net profit by allowing a free-for-all whilst occasionally coughing up through PayPal on the rare occasions that the buyer spotted he had been duped, in time to claim - and that period has been reduced to within 30 days of receipts.

It is all about the profits in an organisation rotten to its core, liars crooks and thieves ... and so are some sellers!
Counterfeit coins have overwhelmed the now existing staff. Many that are reported today are ending with bids and as sold. Maybe the past system was still lacking but the new system is a disaster. I too got that email from their staff member. Ebay has dropped the ball. One guy, Mr. Blum, however good he is, is not enough.
bob
ebay Item - 221484408597 - replica bullion / counterfeit englehard prospector - reported as prohibited, coin, copy

ebay Item - 390875827757 - counterfeit coin - reported as prohibited, coin, copy - I have reported many of this seller's morgans before. Some have sold recently with positive feedback left by the buyer.

I used to report via the CCW and items just as the above were eventually removed within a day or two. sometimes even after the listings closed -- but at least they were removed.



We shall see if these two are removed by ebay.


Follow this Ebay item number: 251578430692. It is a crude, poorly made pot-metal fake of an 1888 Morgan $1. I just reported it today 7/3, using the newly approved channels. Let's see if it gets pulled.
Here is an obviously counterfeit 1885 CC Morgan Dollar that I reported today: 281377181378. It's got plenty of bidding activity. Watch it.

I, too, was a regular reporter through the CCW and have identified 1000s of fakes over the years, most of which were pulled withing 24 to 48 hours of reporting. Sadly, that is not happening today and many unsuspecting buyers are getting fleeced. They will find out one day or another and the hobby will likely lose another collector. Unfortunately, it seems that Ebay is focusing on the short-term gains and ignoring the long term pain this change will surely result in.

Mbogoman
It's not just coins that Ebay is allowing a shafting of the Buyers. I spotted a fake Sterling Fabergé Candlestick and reported it twice during the Auction via the Web. It wasn't taken down. Day before the Auction ended, I called to get it taken down. It wasn't. Buyer left positive feedback within 2 wks. Auction ended for $12,000 that was worth perhaps $600 of silver. By making Buyers anonymous so that the caring humanitariam amongst us can notify them, Ebay is complicit in the theft. Ebay should be sued to their greedy corporate knees.
"Those in the community who are no longer part of EMR can still report violations, and those reports will be investigated just as before."

Untrue. I routinely had problem auctions removed as a result of EMR reporting. Since discontinuation of the EMR program, not a single auction I've reported (and I've reported several) has been acted upon.
besides the 2 above, I have also reported 251578430692 via ebay.com and via ebay.ca
ebay.ca prohibits counterfeits as well as coins that are fraudulent

I have also reported 281377181378

-------------------------------------------


here is an interesting listing for Mr. Donahoe to consider: 151342883184

the obverse is an 1878 not in a 2x2
the reverse is not of an 78-CC, but a CC made 79 or later.
there is no 1878CC with a 79CC reverse. Such a coin does not exist.

Could it be an error with the pictures?
there are 2 bids on this. Are the bidders just trusting they will receive a 78CC despite the pictures? The pictures ARE supposed to be of the coin. Is this a sign that people trust ebay as a coin venue?

or

are ebay bidders unaware there is no 78CC with a 79CC rev? This is also possible. Simply look at the above counterfeits being auctioned. There are bidders who bid on counterfeits.

Is ebay as safe as it could be? It is less safe than before. These auctions will likely close and sell if recent, post-CCW experiences dictate.

Oh, I did as the seller about the photos. The camera is apparently broken and the coin is no longer in the 2x2, but the reverse and front photos are of the coin.

Reported -- prohibited, coin, copy. On the other hand, if the seller had said one photo was "borrowed" from another auction, it still could have been reported for not having photos of the actual coin, right?

We'll see if it sells.

....I did ASK the seller about the photos....
What a pile of crap. I always add listings to my watch list that I report. Of the last 3 not one of them was removed. I have pretty much stopped purchasing from E-Bay, other than occasional boredom I stay away. The site has erradicated all of the positive aspects. Most of the buyers are novices buying to resell because of the PCGS association, but thats a whole other issue
Take a look at seller sss157. This is a Chinese crook and everything offered and sold is counterfeit and that even includes counterfeit copies of Windows 8.1!

Then there are the many pathetic counterfeits that are now being allowed to complete, including item number 271529564967, a 1914-D cent reported several times from a seller who has already sold a pathetic counterfeit 1909-S VDB cent.

There was a time when persistent offenders had their accounts suspended, that is now gone.

There was a time when reporting completed listings, led to those listings being removed, but no longer.

T & S staff have been instructed to ignore third-party reports and EMR reports, none are investigated, as many who have commented here and on Collectors Universe have already established, just emphasising the extent to which Cook lied to you when you posed your questions.

By the way, the CCW team also dealt with stamps and there used to be dedicated philatelic EMR's and the situation for philatelists prepared to risk an eBay purchase is just as bleak as numismatists. Let's hope that the old EMR's have also contacted the philatelic journals to alert them to the fact that eBay management is as unscrupulous as an ever increasing number of its sellers and is encouraging and supporting fraud.
Here is an interesting item I just reported with more than 10 of them available
ebay item 331252178792
replica, plated, clad bullion not allowed

Credit Suisse makes 1 troy ounce bars.
The seller admits in the title it is a replica.

It was reported as prohibited, coin, copy

will this listing be ended. On criticism by Mr. Donahoe was the inconsistency of the "fake" determinations.
I think the seller settles that right away.

PS to ebay: you need to fix this on our reporting page as "copy" on the item shouldn't keep it from being delisted
"The item in this listing is a replica coin, replica paper money, or replica stamp that has not been clearly marked as a reproduction, replica, or copy."
EBay got tired of pulling all the fakes, it hurts their profits so they prefer them to stay listed.
eBay is overrun with criminals from all over the world, and eBay facilitates the addition of an ever growing population of criminals on their sites. eBay charges high seller fees to offset the losses they incur from the illegal activities eBay supports.
I just reported this obviously fake 1875-cc trade dollar to ebay. Let's see if they remove it.
have reported numerous listings. none have been removed. some sold, some ended by seller only to be relisted. there is a bubble here that is destined to burst. the pressure is mounting.

OCC
Type your comment here.
Ebay has decided not to make any judgement about what is being sold, evidently. It is now completely buyer beware, with respect to the merchandise being sold.
What they can do is make sure that if goods are not delivered, or if they are returned for any reason, the buyer's money is refunded. This would make it so all sellers who state "No Refunds" would not be allowed to practice this, nor could the seller require any reason for not giving a refund on returned merchandise, specifically the buyer would not have to prove he was sold a fake. Maybe 60 day return periods for items sent to 3rd party grading firms for authentication in the case of coins?
Being honest as a business incurs costs to the business. The benefits associated with being honest vary considerably, depending upon the nature of the business. Since Ebay has no close substitutes, like the local grocery store has, there is much less of an incentive to adopt certain business practices, because the costs associated with adopting certain practices are quickly outweighed by the benefits associated with not adopting those practices. Screening sellers for fakes is bad for income generation for Ebay. Integrity is passe.
There is definitely - despite what eBay says - a change. It used to be possible to report fakes and counterfeits and have them removed. I have emails from eBay thanking me for the reports I made to prove it. Now there isn't even a simple way to make a report and the ones you do file (by using categories that don't fit the problems) never get even an acknowledgement. And no actions are being taken.

There was always an incredible amount of fakes and fraud in the eBay listings. The EMR program gave us a safety valve to shutdown the worst of the worst. And it's become more and more important as the breadth and quality of the Chinese fakes have grown.

The results of this anti-consumer behavior by eBay won't be seen tomorrow or even next year. It will be 10 or 20 years down the road, when "gramps" 10-coin $100,000 collection left for the Grandchildren turns out to be 10 fakes worth 10c...
Type your comment here.
Many of the more basic, crude coin counterfeits are no longer being removed.
"Replica" sellers are showing up in increasing numbers. Also seeing more blatant stolen listing photo scams.

IMO, the word is slowly getting out that there is very little to no active T&S within the coin category, hence the increase in outright counterfeits listed as genuine, Chinese produced replicas and other various coin scams.
Here is an easy item to remove - 161358936773

gold plated american gold eagle copies.

the seller is kind enough to mention they do not have "copy" on them. so, not only are they against ebay policy as replica bullion and replica coins, they are against the law -- the Hobby Protection Act.
previously mentioned item 221484408597 has sold

I hope they do local pick up or sell to california only -
15 U.S. Code § 294 - Importation or _transportation_ of falsely marked gold or silver ware prohibited


But, wait! There's more!

This same seller has received positive feedback for these items - 221480618728 , 221475395410
The seller makes it easy by stating there is no gold value and they are gold plated. Still, these types of things are not allowed for a reason. Nowhere on the item is it marked "plated" or "copy." These are in violation of the HPA as copies of real gold eagles.


Here is one that just ended - 221484409604

I was once able to have recently ended auctions removed. We will see if that is still the case (it isn't). I just reported it as prohibited, coin, copy

the plated credit suisse bar, item 331252178792, has been removed.

It shows they are receiving and can act on some reports.


Why have they yet to act on the others?


Why did the plated prospector not get removed, too?

And the morgans?
Let's see if they can duplicate their success by removing this silver plated bar - ebay item 360975455107

reported as prohibited, coin, copy

To anonymous 7/6. For item 221475395410, the word "COPY" is center under the eagle's wing.

The word "COPY" is center under the eagle's wing for item 221475395410. Message for anonymous 7/6.
Indeed "copy" is on the rev erse under the wing.

Perhaps that hurts the veracity of the CCW reporting system? Well, T & S outside of CCW also makes mistakes.

BUT! just because it says "copy" does not mean it is allowed on ebay. It is still a copy coin, and not allowed. So, reporting such items is not a mistake. :-P


Remember recently reported silver clad bar 360975455107? Here is another I reported from the same seller 360975451144 - reported as prohibited, coin, copy - also 191231189135 -reported as prohibited, coin, copy.

Different seller - 251572537646 - RCM gold plated and the seller states "without copy" - reported as prohibited, coin, copy - 5 sold already! ebay must be happy. - same seller, same item but different item number with 11 sold - 261476707019 - reported as prohibited, coin, copy - same seller with a JM bar 15 sold - 261472188835 - reported as prohibited, coin, copy


different seller with a different approach -
This is in one ounce gold bar that is plated it is not a solid gold bar it doesn't say anywhere on it and it is not real gold so if you're trying to trick somebody it'll work please do not try to rip anybody off this comes in a clear case to keep it in
Credit Suisse "1oz Gold" plated bar - item 281323420709 - reported as prohibited, coin, copy.
It has been reported that clad bars were removed following reports.

Of course, clad so-called bullion and copy coins are not permitted on eBay but eBay never bothered to remove them unless they were reported, even though they could have got most of them with a web spider.

Such obvious breaches of the rules may still be dealt with, albeit inconsistently but reported counterfeits are totally ignored because they are regarded as subjective.

The Chinese crooks are now making a big return and the $89 listings for ten identical Morgans, using a stolen image of an MS coin have also made their return.

EMR's are being ignored, which means that Blum is being ignored but as he made no measurable impact before CCW was destroyed, his presence is no more than an anachronism and as a stooge to create the illusion that eBay cares. Well, it does care, it cares about its profits and only about its profits.

Apparently where reputation is concerned, Donahoe simply does not care.
Fleabay does ABSOLUTELY nothing about fraud. They really don't care. Guess they're too big to care.
I see some (all?) clad stuff has been removed

I won't have time today to follow up

Those are the easy ones -- no dispute as the seller admitted what was for sale. I am still a bit surprised they are gone



How can 1 expert review all fake coin listings? Aren't there areas of expertise? Time constraints?


Also, some tough calls are to be expected (but not from the ones posted here). If there are tough calls I am now surprised there are inconsistent calls. It is tough to judge some fakes (but not the ones here) from photos. This also make clear, full size, and straight on photos all the more important.

I see some (all?) clad stuff has been removed

I won't have time today to follow up

Those are the easy ones -- no dispute as the seller admitted what was for sale. I am still a bit surprised they are gone



How can 1 expert review all fake coin listings? Aren't there areas of expertise? Time constraints?


Also, some tough calls are to be expected (but not from the ones posted here). If there are tough calls I am not surprised there are inconsistent calls. It is tough to judge some fakes (but not the ones here) from photos. This also make clear, full size, and straight on photos all the more important.

I see some (all?) clad stuff has been removed

I won't have time today to follow up

Those are the easy ones -- no dispute as the seller admitted what was for sale. I am still a bit surprised they are gone



How can 1 expert review all fake coin listings? Aren't there areas of expertise? Time constraints?


Also, some tough calls are to be expected (but not from the ones posted here). If there are tough calls I am not surprised there are inconsistent calls. It is tough to judge some fakes (but not the ones here) from photos. This also make clear, full size, and straight on photos all the more important.

the clad stuff is easy because the seller admits what it is. The better tell will be taking down the clad stuff that is being offered as real.

I am looking for those that are fakes but not disclosed as clad.

ebay item 131229989516
Counterfeit in a counterfeit holder

I don't have time right now to report it

Sold early to the first bidder

item above - 131229989516 - reported as prohibited, coin, copy
there is a 14 day return policy and ebay buyer protection. I guess if ebay wants to protect the buyer, they will take this auction down after the close just like the CCW did.
all of the plated bullion above has been removed
EXCEPT
items 261476707019 , 261472188835 , 161358936773 , 251570780022

The first one is worthy of a mention. The exact same seller had the exact same item in a different listing - 251572537646 - which was removed however listind - 261476707019 - remains. How inconsistent. Is this an example of ebay's version of Tyler Perry's "I Can Do Bad All By Myself?" One reason the CCW was shut was "inconsistency" with counterfeit determinations. I say they did far more good than any number of accidental removals -- should the experts disagree, then leave them up. Unfortunately we are at a point now where obvious fakes are being left up, to the detriment of the purchasers, ebay, and the law.

eBay can't even get its T & S act together to bring down ALL the plated replicas? PLUS, the obvious counterfeit coins mentioned above are still up. This one sold - 151342883184 The CCW would still remove it after selling, will ebay's T & S do so? What good are ebay's policies if they are not used by T & S to protect the buyer? Why does ebay have policies requiring pictures, pclear pictures, and even pictures of a certain size? It seems those could be done away with like the CCW if obvious counterfeits are allowed to be sold.


Bad News!

item 161358936773 - plated bullion, was not removed.

Before I could report the relisting via item 161360003226 , it sold!

Hurray for the elimination of the CCW as ebay's T & S is even failing on items the seller admits are replicas.

item 161360003226 reported as prohibited, coin, copy

..........................................................................

perhaps ebay's CCW was effective enough people were falsely claiming injustice to defend their own injustices to ebay
item 221487355218 - same seller as a previously removed item has another of the same item to sell - reported prohibited, coin, copy

item 360881231097 - 46 sold! 9 available - reported as prohibited, coin, copy

item 111402036570 - has a bid and will sell if not removed - reported as prohibited, coin, copy

item 201123765758 - has a bid and will sell if not removed - reported as prohibited, coin, copy

now on to foreign sellers of self-admittedly replica bullion
item 191238452307

Surely, I don't expect USA people to take down a UK listing? Yes I do.

However, since that has proven totally ineffective in the past, here is what I do that works in the minority of the cases.
1.) go to item listing
2.) look at the country
3) log in to ebay in that countr - in this case it is ebay.co.uk
4) ensure the item is prohibited by checking the seller's guidelines on that country's ebay site - in this case:
Not Allowed - Replica, plated or clad bullion - Counterfeit coins - Replica coins

5) report item - reported as prohibited, coin, copy via ebay.co.uk (although ebay usa people should handle these, too)




Here are some ebay.com.au items all reported as prohibited, coins, copy via ebay.com.au:
191143334085 , 191143334475 , 201076564923 , 191081233562



In response to the previous comment, let me assure you that reports to eBay UK were ALWAYS ignored and that is why CCW had responsibility for dealing with them. Out of sheer curiosity, I recently even tried to report a number of counterfeits to a supervisor and nothing happened, not even his promised callback after investigating the matter.

If anyone wants to test this out, try reporting listing 390858426192, about as ugly a counterfeit 1875-CC TD as you are ever likely to see.
It is just as bad in the stamp world. Post war locals with cancels from the 1930s. A Sudetenland provisional with a Prague 1923 cancel (the Sudetenland was occupied in 1939--and Prague ain't in it). There are many other examples. Caveat Emptor,
shock and awe is coming

I'm just bit indisposed right now.

But here are a few counterfeits to get things started.

Will ebay take these down as fast as the USA listed plated (well, most of the USA listed plated bullion)


251584414159 (ebay canada listed)
111405120537
111405122513


Now, I won't say why these are pathetically obvious counterfeits and here is why:

the CCW was able to describe the problem in a text box on the report page.
All we are left with now is"
reported as prohibited, coin, copy

which the 3 above were reported as. 2 to USA and 1 to CANADA

oh ebay?

previously mention item 151342883184

positive feedback left for buyer
positive feedback left for seller.

I'm inclined to believe the seller that the reverse picture was what he seller stated - the reverse just before it was removed from the 2x2.

Even if not, can ebay really be 100% sure a counterfeit was not just sold? Isn't that what "pictures of the actual item" is for?

I smell failure coming from ebay's direction ....


The former philatelic EMR's report that the situation is pretty dreadful there too, with thousands of dollars of counterfeits sold and selling.

In fact it is dreadful everywhere, baseball cards, handbags, perfume and now you can easily find counterfeit copies of Microsoft Windows from China.

eBay is truly a site run for criminals by criminals and the US federal authorities just ignore it all - makes you wonder who's getting the kickbacks.
OK

Time for shock and awe

ebay is yanking most, but not all, patently disallowed replica bullion -- some even after the auction closed.

Here are some counterfeit morgan dollars -- all reported as prohibited, coin, copy

Will the percentage removed be as good?

331259423417
141345457096
231280737212
360987254369
131239676791
131240013204
181464465142
171384938473
171384570147
121384621100
121384641467


191242881572
121383289020
121383284552
251582603939
111404162353
181456583184


and, finally, this one 251589435222


all reported as prohibited, coin, copy


281386986969 - reported to both ebay.com AND ebay.ca as prohibited, coin, copy

all these reported as prohibited, coin, copy
181467675961
181467679065
221495927195
301245436378
301245470891
301245475822
301245457802
301245456128
301245454082
301245451150
301245448412
301245446450
301245444472
301245443347
301245441538
301245439500
301245434369
301245429304
and back to replica bullion

360985823530 - reported as prohibited, coin, copy (seller was 360881231097 who had the item removed once already)
400741435921
400741286161
141348003695
261535109524
261533308930
261476707019 - reporting again as it has yet to be removed
251570780022 - reporting again as it has yet to be removed
261472188835 - reporting again as it has yet to be removed
261508657941
181465619638


and, finally, why doesn't ebay prevent a listing from going live without a photo as required? - 131243823879 -- reported as other coin concerns


Reports made July 16:

non-bullion counterfeits removed so far

181464465142
121384621100

bullion counterfeits removed so far
360985823530
How hard is it to remove the counterfeit bullion since each seller states it is not pure right in the listing?

and that one seller that I have reported multiple times had one listing of counterfeit RCM items removed, but another remains? How inconsistent is that?



And what is holding up removal of the non-bullion coins reported on the 16th? How many EMRs are still handling these easy to spot counterfeits? So far, so bad.

this mornings finds:

all reported as prohibited, coin, copy

111409788306
231284827561
131244335057
131244333711
131244332768
181467800973

plated bullion -- reported as prohibited, coin, copy
281385872658
151357221398
201128525659 - seller has been reported in the past
221494614189 - seller has been reported in the past
221490988241

The answer to the question of how many EMR's are handling reports is exactly none.

No reports of any sort are being forwarded to a remaining EMR, they are just being ignored by Trust & Safety - ironic name, isn't it, now that there is exactly no safety, so no trust!
you have that wrong

there is trust but not nearly enough safety. At least with the CCW these obvious violations would have been handled already.

today's finds

all reported as prohibited, coin, copy
301246929750
291193528920
181468455545
161370048758
161366966728
and plated bullion - reported as prohibited, coin, copy
141351261097 - repeat lister
400743905758
181468699047
181468700629
400743905257
141350986517
221497843591
221497443579 - another previous lister
281388513638 - and another previous lister


for today

all reported as prohibited, coin, copy

331265107138
400744187552
221497968822
191253163225 - sold already

plated bullion reported as prohibited, coin, copy

181469436919 - repeat lister
181469434835
181469381687
141352059015 - another repeat lister
151359746266
151359744312
151359721597
another plated bullion reported as prohibited, coin, copy

181469088366 - and another repeat lister

one more plated bullion reported as prohibited, coin, copy


181469088366 - and another repeat lister

The real issue is not the number of plated bullion coins that are identified as such and frankly if eBay cared, a web spider could quickly clear these, it's about the counterfeits masquerading as genuine.

There has never been more counterfeit TD's than now. Here is a selection:

111412767968
380948150679
321458898421
231268808737
181456583184
181467762502
111407922202

This is just an identified selection and I could add a selection of Morgans, but I feel that the point has already been well made. The entire site is just a disgrace, designed to line the pockets of Donahoe & Co.
all reported for prohibited, coin, copy

161371863205
390890283633
321468158513
321468156639
321468160529
321468162250
321468152096
321468149329
321468099118
390890290370
390890286445

plated bullion reported as prohibited, coin, copy

151361347594 - repeat lister
151359828404
281390808330 - another repeat lister
271550101686 <---- an ID I don't recognize!
301236810307
181471553239 - this one is in the Russian Federation, but that does not matter, right? because ebay.ru redirects immediately to ebay.com. So, the site rules still apply, right?



two more counterfeits - reported as prohibited, coin, copy

321468541265 - this one is in the Czech Republic - but ebay.cz redirects immediately to ebay.com. So, the site rules still apply, right?
191257002929


plated bullion - reported as prohibited, coin, copy

321469443164
221501361015 - a repeat lister
201132821188 - another repeat lister
181471474772 - and another repeat lister
301251270708
301251253898
141353888651 - one more repeat lister
161373210459
221500565192- and one more repeat lister
281390790279
141352550711
301249303680
301249302419
301249298643

I should be grateful if someone here would explain to me why they censored my last post.

I provided a list of counterfeit trade dollars and commented that these were examples of exactly what is wrong with eBay, not the countless clad bullion that is described as such.
I should be grateful if someone here would explain to me why they censored my last post.

I provided a list of counterfeit trade dollars and commented that these were examples of exactly what is wrong with eBay, not the countless clad bullion that is described as such.
I will tell you for a fact that most counterfeit, altered, and other coin policy violations are NOT removed. Under the old system, 95% of what I reported was removed, now only about 5% of what I report is removed. How in the world is this an improvement and show commitment to providing a safe, secure online marketplace for coins? It is NOT, and therefore eBay is not telling the truth.
Reports have been sent to ebay on fake coins by myself and many other members, and ebay have not acted
on reports. Ebay continue to sell many fake coins, and do nothing about it. There staff fail to act and allow
fraud scammers and fakes to be sold. It is time that a website be made to warn collectors as to what is
going on. and show what ebay is failing to act on reports.
Major Joke! Realistacally.....Ebay doesn't care! They hope the Buyer doesn't realize they are getting ripped off, as long as they get their 10% in fees. I purchased a coin fro a new seller. 4 days later I notice he's selling obvious fake trade dollars and report. Two days later (after it sold) they remove all evidence of listing. My coin shows up....FAKE. Received refund after seller strings me along through the whole lengthy process (so I get to keep the counterfeit). I left negative. Another Buyer left neutral (for no communication) and then did a follow up his coin was counterfeit also. Another Buyer left negative for fake coin (which Ebay promptly removed) but his reply to the Sellers feedback left for him shows his coin was also counterfeit. I've since reported 2 more of his listings (one an obvious chinese counterfeit trade dollar obverse with seated dollar reverse) and yet the listings are still running. One of them has already ended and been relisted due to not reaching sellers reserve (which is now lowered). AGAIN.....Ebay doesn't care. Those buyers who find out down the road that they purchased fake coins are SOL.
do not think I have forgotten ebay.

for the counterfeit coins, they removed 6 out of 80 reported for a percentage of 7.5%

the number sold was 29 for a percfentage sold of 36.25%

below is a .csv of the damage.


item #,item,seller,date reported,status,comment,other comment,,price (excluding shipping)
390875827757,counterfeit coin,mrsproductive,"July 3, 2014",closed unsold,relisted,,,
251578430692,counterfeit coin, istanbul_ankara,"July 3, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
281377181378,counterfeit coin,loops5712,"July 3, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
251578430692,counterfeit coin,istanbul_ankara,"July 4, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
151342883184,counterfeit coin,paynes6244,"July 4, 2014",sold,positive feedback left by buyer and seller,,,$64
271529564967,counterfeit coin,13-mike79,"July 4, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$130.69
131229989516,pcgs holder fake / counterfeit coin,pittstate03,"July 9, 2014",sold,no feedback,,,$179.99
390858426192,counterfeit coin,brianfranks0,"July 9, 2014",active,,,,
251584414159,counterfeit coin,istanbul_ankara,"July 11, 2014",closed unsold,relisted,sold no feedback,,$30
111405120537,counterfeit coin,garbeeleah,"July 11, 2014",closed unsold,,,,
111405122513,counterfeit coin,garbeeleah,"July 11, 2014",sold,false positive feedback left for buyer,,,$192.50
331259423417,counterfeit coin,sw94,"July 16, 2014",closed unsold,relisted,reported below,,
141345457096,counterfeit coin,ron1949c,"July 16, 2014",sold,no feedback,,,$27.26
231280737212,counterfeit coin,hackjr123,"July 16, 2014",sold,buyer only one to leave feedback,,,$515.99
360987254369,counterfeit coin,fittedshirt2002,"July 16, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$89
131239676791,counterfeit coin,coinsdirect777,"July 16, 2014",removed,only seller left feedback,,,
131240013204,counterfeit coin,coinsdirect777,"July 16, 2014",sold,no feedback,,,$33
181464465142,counterfeit coin,--,"July 16, 2014",removed,,,,
171384938473,counterfeit coin,veaguer,"July 16, 2014",closed unsold,relisted,closed unsold,,
171384570147,counterfeit coin,truemeaning,"July 16, 2014",sold,no feedback,,,$955
121384621100,counterfeit coin,--,"July 16, 2014",removed,,,,
121384641467,counterfeit coin,dmjdedwards,"July 16, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$110
191242881572,counterfeit coin,txgunrunner,"July 16, 2014",closed unsold,,,,
121383289020,counterfeit coin,masterbruce19,"July 16, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$172.50
121383284552,counterfeit coin,masterbruce19,"July 16, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$780.50
251582603939,counterfeit coin,kinatiffy21 ,"July 16, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$26.65
111404162353,counterfeit coin,oldesaratogacoinplattsburgh,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
181456583184,counterfeit coin,badfinger128,"July 16, 2014",sold,buyer only one to leave feedback,,,$98.57
251589435222,counterfeit coin,fipam2012,"July 16, 2014",closed unsold,,,,
281386986969,counterfeit coin,canada1789,"July 16, 2014",sold,no feedback,,,$11
181467675961,counterfeit coin,ibnuts4sure,"July 16, 2014",listing ended - item no longer available,,,,
181467679065,counterfeit coin,ibnuts4sure,"July 16, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,feedback indicates some trouble,,$157.50
221495927195,counterfeit coin,mpal6707,"July 16, 2014",sold,no feedback,,,$20.49
301245436378,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245413345,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245475822,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245457802,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245456128,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245454082,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245451150,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245448412,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245446450,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245444472,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245443347,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245441538,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245439500,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245434369,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245429304,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
301245427435,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,intentionally not mentioned but reported,,,
301245426078,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,intentionally not mentioned but reported,,,
301245418960,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,intentionally not mentioned but reported,,,
301245415976,counterfeit coin,gatorfan555555,"July 16, 2014",ended by seller - error,intentionally not mentioned but reported,,,
111409788306,counterfeit coin,williammtmusic,"July 17, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
231284827561,counterfeit coin,dhirsh1149,"July 17, 2014",closed unsold,,,,
131244335057,counterfeit coin,--,"July 17, 2014",removed,,,,
131244333711,counterfeit coin,--,"July 17, 2014",removed,,,,
131244332768,counterfeit coin,--,"July 17, 2014",removed,,,,
181467800973,counterfeit coin,stampergirl2011,"July 17, 2014",sold,positive feedback left by buyer and seller,Imitation coin so marked,,$0.99
301246929750,counterfeit coin,ashlyw,"July 18, 2014",closed unsold,,,,
291193528920,counterfeit coin,jm-bullion-bars,"July 18, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$200.45
181468455545,counterfeit coin,hiphipjorge007,"July 18, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$145.59
161370048758,counterfeit coin,mxc1971,"July 18, 2014",sold,positive feedback left by buyer and seller,Nice Conversation Piece?,,$46.50
161366966728,counterfeit coin,realestatehousehunter,"July 18, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$145
331265107138,counterfeit coin,sw94,"July 19, 2014",closed unsold,relisted,active,,
400744187552,counterfeit coin,kewa27,"July 19, 2014",closed unsold,relisted,active,,
221497968822,counterfeit coin,uneekegifts,"July 19, 2014",sold,only seller left feedback,,,$154.48
191253163225,counterfeit coin,txgunrunner,"July 19, 2014",sold,no feedback,,,$205
161371863205,counterfeit coin,haunts4u,"July 22, 2014",sold,all feedback private,,,$101.13
390890283633,counterfeit coin,haunts4u,"July 22, 2014",sold,all feedback private,,,$269
321468158513,counterfeit coin,dlh7283,"July 22, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
321468156639,counterfeit coin,dlh7283,"July 22, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
321468160529,counterfeit coin,dlh7283,"July 22, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
321468162250,counterfeit coin,dlh7283,"July 22, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
321468152096,counterfeit coin,dlh7283,"July 22, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
321468149329,counterfeit coin,dlh7283,"July 22, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
321468099118,counterfeit coin,dlh7283,"July 22, 2014",ended by seller - error,,,,
390890290370,counterfeit coin,haunts4u,"July 22, 2014",sold,all feedback private,,,$305
390890286445,counterfeit coin,haunts4u,"July 22, 2014",sold,all feedback private,,,$362.13
321468541265,counterfeit coin,ljelinekl,"July 22, 2014",closed unsold,relisted,active,,
191257002929,counterfeit coin,kiopow1mmm,"July 22, 2014",sold,no feedback,,,$179.48

,,,number removed,6,,,,
,,,number reported,80,,,,
,,,percent removed,7.50%,,,,

,,,number sold,29,,,,
,,,percent sold,36.25%,,,,

When Trust & safety still existed, one of the major benefits was stemming the flow of counterfeits from Chinese sellers, and 1000's of Chinese accounts were suspended. Now they are returning with a vengeance. For instance:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=miao+coin&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

and

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=miao&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmiao+coin&_nkw=miao+coin&_sacat=0
Coin Forgery eBay is a respected discussion group on eBay. The purpose of the group has been to discuss counterfeits and scammers and the group had a charter with eBay that allowed such discussion provided that as a closed group, the names of the sellers did not appear in any headers.

It should come as no surprise that a small number of its members were EMR's and that listings and sellers discussed were often reported to eBay. This worked well a d led to the removal of many listings and to the suspension of a number of accounts but now this group is under attack by a combination of Lithium moderators and eBay staff censoring listings in breach of the charter and purely in the interest of generating more fraudulent revenue for eBay and for scam sellers.

Here is a recent removal:

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/old_coin_collections/m.html?item=261536340470&hash=item3ce4c7d9f6&_uhb=1&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_212&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

You will note that everything is counterfeit and for the record, since eBay won't act, the seller and eBay has been reported to the RCMP.

Anyone wishing to report the many counterfeits now ignored by eBay can report here:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/count-contre/nacb-bnlcc-eng.htm

or here:

http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

Twitter and Facebook users should also make a point of naming and shaming eBay and the scams it now actively supports and encourages.
More random interference on Coin Forgery eBay from the usual idiot Lithium moderator who goes by the name of crimson leopard.

There is still a sanitised discussion about this listing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solid-gold-British-Sovereign-1920-/121400411281

When Trust & Safety still existed, the photos would have condemned the listing but even with the laughable photos, it is possible to see that the obverse shows the modified effigy that was first used in 1929 - so NOT 1920!
Collectors and dealers BEWARE... eBay is rife with counterfeit coins AND tokens.. Just go their Indian 5 dollar gold selections....over 40 % are bogus frauds. Any of them over EF-40 and NOT 3rd party graded should be avoided like Ebola... Buy from your local dealer, or coin show....